Cardinals dinking around with another draft pick

20 Jul

I’d really like this guy, so naturally the Cardinals are low-balling College World Series hero Mike Stutes

“We’ve had a long negotiation process, and it’s been rocky at times,” said Stutes, the Beavers’ top winner (12-4) and the victor in the June 24 national championship game against North Carolina. “They (the Cardinals) are a good organization and I’d like to play for them, but this is a tough decision to make.

“It’s 50-50 about going back to school, and I’m almost leaning on going back to school.”

This is really starting to irritate me, Stutes is a great arm and I don’t think a few thousand dollars should keep the Cardinals for signing him. Of course, this made me think of Rice’s Tyler Henley, I couldn’t find any word on him on whether or not he’s going to sign. As I type this, I thought I’d do a li’l google search regarding our ol’ pal Kyle Russell…

And I find News Channel 8 of Austin saying

The Cardinals have another month to come to terms with last years leading homerun hitter but apparently both sides aren’t even close and Russell has already made up his mind to return to Texas.




–quick update. i’ve pulled the colby and russell watches. i figured they are bad luck. colby hasn’t been hitting for almost 2 months now, and russell’s headed back to Texas. sorry.


25 Responses to “Cardinals dinking around with another draft pick”

  1. azruavatar November 30, -0001 at 12:00 am #

    Silent George – What happens if he’s swamped on Aug 15th (or with any luck still touring with the Giants, waiting for 756) and can’t issue his approval- do those deals not go through?

    It’s about when the deal was submitted to the Commisioners office not when it was approved. You’ll see MLB trade deadline deals on July 31st that are submitted at like 11:59pm but may not be approved till late the next day.

  2. fewgoodcards July 20, 2007 at 10:36 am #

    i wouldn’t look for any of these guys to be signed until right before the deadline b/c they will likely require more than slot and mlb isn’t letting any teams sign guys above slot right now. check this out from a blog entry on today

    “MLB recommends specific bonuses for every pick in the first five rounds, and none of the players who has signed in those rounds so far this summer has received more than slot money. In fact, only two players are known to have exceeded slot: shortstop Fernando Cruz (Royals) and Michael Fisher (Braves), both sixth-rounders.

    Players drafted after the fifth round aren’t supposed to exceed the final slot in that round, which this year was $123,300. Both Cruz and Fisher signed for $125,000—a whopping $1,700 over slot.”

    basically if the deal is over slot, you can’t sign yet.

  3. Erik July 20, 2007 at 10:46 am #

    that’s interesting info, didn’t know that. i wonder if the draftees are aware, because stutes and russell seem pretty soured by the whole thing.

  4. Ryan July 20, 2007 at 11:01 am #

    Here’s a question: if you’re Kyle Russell and as a sophomore you lead NCAA in home runs, why in the world would you want to return to school when you are probably two years away from being the next Adam Dunn?

  5. MikeW July 20, 2007 at 11:27 am #

    4th-round money vs. 1st-round money.

  6. Ryan July 20, 2007 at 11:48 am #

    Sure, but if they offer him well above slot, what incentive would there to be to go back to Texas? Dorm food?

  7. azruavatar July 20, 2007 at 12:22 pm #

    FGC – that’s all reccomendations though. MLB has no official authority over signing bonuses. It’s the decision of each team whether they want to stick their thumb in Selig’s eye. MLB seems to be getting it’s way but there isn’t an ounce of mandatory power they have there — they just make life uncomfortable in other ways.

    With the shortened deadline, I think quite a few more of these signings are going to approach the deadline. It’s frustrating for us but that’s simply the nature of draft negotiations anymore. We’ve still got a month left to go before this is going to reslove itself but I don’t think it’s necessarily tied to going overslot.

  8. Silent George July 20, 2007 at 12:37 pm #

    With Mitch Canham last year, this is two years in a row where the Cardinals seem to have trouble signing guys who are in the college world series. It kind of looks like the Cards have a certain overall budget and if they reach that limit when signing guys in the first week and a half after the draft, then they can’t sign the guys who couldn’t negotiate with them during that time frame.

  9. Picklefork July 20, 2007 at 12:41 pm #

    This is no surprise, there wasnt anyone who knows the Cards track record thought Russell was going to sign. It was a wasted draft pick, much like Daniel Descalso is, but at least he is getting paid.

    As Colby Rasmus’s dad said…the Cards draft the best player available…for what they want to pay.

    When you use money as a scouting tool in drafting your going to end up being one of the worst farm systems in baseball….

    Oh wait, we already are!

  10. JKologist July 20, 2007 at 12:45 pm #

    Why would Russell want to return to Texas? Because it’s a kick ass school, in the best city. That’s why.

    That said, I hope he signs.

  11. fewgoodcards July 20, 2007 at 12:46 pm #

    Az, i know its just recommendations and the teams can spend what they want, but mlb still has to approve the deals and they usually don’t let teams announce over slot deals until late in the summer b/c they think they will influence other deals (i think that is a load of crap, but its what bud thinks). this is why you see the only guys who are officially signed at this point are guys who signed for slot of less. that is why i said if the deal is over slot, you can’t “sign” yet.

    remember last year when it was a running joke over at baseball america that ian kennedy agreed to a deal with the yankees right away, but since it was over slot mlb didn’t let them announce it until the end of august and he was only able to pitch in one game?

  12. Silent George July 20, 2007 at 1:07 pm #

    I believe there’s somewhat less incentive for teams to do that this year, althought it might be fairly insignificant. As the deadline is August 15th, if players will be signed at all they will have to be signed to 2007 contracts, thereby starting various clocks. I’m not sure which clocks get started by the year of your first contract, but I think at least the minor league free agents are based on when they sign the first contract.

    At any rate, it seems that there may be less incentive to hold off announcing the signing as this year will count, whether they play 2 months or 2 weeks.

  13. fewgoodcards July 20, 2007 at 1:15 pm #

    the incentive isn’t for the team. i’m sure if it was up to the team they would announce the deals as soon as they complete them. its the commishioner’s office that makes them hold off b/c they believe if over slot deals are made public it will influence the signing bonuses of other players. basically, they want everyone that is going to sign for close to slot to be signed before they announce any over slot deals.

    mlb reduced the slot bonuses by 10% this year and it is widely believed that a lot of players are holding out for last year’s slot money. even if the teams are willing to pay that, the commishioner doesn’t want those deals to be announced and that is the reason many believe this is the slowest signing of first round picks in history.

    btw, the clock would be the number of years before a player has to be placed on the 40 man roster or exposed to the rule V draft. however, the new collective bargaining agreement added a year to that clock, so these players won’t really be losing anything but experience.

  14. whiteyball July 20, 2007 at 1:30 pm #

    Just as the Cardinals are posturing in the press, I would think that the agents of the players have to told those players to do the same. It likes buying a house. You don’t walk in and say I really want this house and am willing to pay whatever it takes. Maybe its the same with the players. You want the Cardinals to believe that you are set on going back to school to see if they will increase their offer. The side that doesn’t flinch wins.

  15. Silent George July 20, 2007 at 1:38 pm #

    I meant less incentive for the teams to comply with the commissioner’s request to sign such deals only late in the bargaining period. In the past the teams got something out of delaying; namely by signing them to a year later contract, they kept the player under control longer. Now they lose the playing time to evaluate/coach the players without getting anything return except the warm feeling that comes from pleasing Selig.

    I’m sure most clubs probably aren’t too worried about this aspect, but I’ll bet the Astros wish they’d had more data when they chose not to protect Santana.

  16. fewgoodcards July 20, 2007 at 1:54 pm #

    i don’t think you understand what i am saying. its not the commissioner’s request for teams to sign those deals late in the signing period, its his demand. the request is to follow the slotting system, which teams don’t have to follow, but every deal is subject to commissioner’s approval and the only way his office approves over slot deals is to release them late. sure, teams don’t want to lose that time, but that is the price you have to pay and there is nothing the team can do about it.

  17. Silent George July 20, 2007 at 2:15 pm #

    I wasn’t aware that the commissioner had that power. If his approval is mandatory, couldn’t he in effect block any above slot signing simply by not approving? What happens if he’s swamped on Aug 15th (or with any luck still touring with the Giants, waiting for 756) and can’t issue his approval- do those deals not go through?

  18. fewgoodcards July 20, 2007 at 2:37 pm #

    yes he could block an above slot deal (and has). in 2003 the astros drafted drew stubbs in the 3rd round and offered him i believe first round money which he agreed to. they sent the deal to the commissioner’s office and he wouldn’t ok the deal so stubbs went to texas where he became an all-american and first round pick 3 years later. it is also believed that he blocked the signing of pedro beato and bryan morris as draft and follows last year and they were forced to re-enter the draft.

    as to the question about him following the giants around, i’m sure bud himself doesn’t approve all the deals. i am sure it is people in his office who do most of if not all of the work.

  19. azruavatar July 20, 2007 at 2:57 pm #

    FGC – I’m relatively certain that MLB cannot block deals exclusively due to signing over slot.

    From BA’s draft tracker in 2006 – “Stubbs was considered a borderline first-round talent coming out of high school in 2003. He would have signed with the Astros for $900,000 as a third-rounder if Major League Baseball hadn’t persuaded Houston owner Drayton McLane not to exceed its bonus recommendation.”

    It’s all about gentlemen’s agreements and persuasion – the velvet glove over the iron fist.

  20. azruavatar July 20, 2007 at 3:14 pm #

    Silent George – somehow my answer to your question is showing up as the first comment on this thread. WordPress snafu i guess.

  21. fewgoodcards July 20, 2007 at 3:19 pm #

    while they may not “block” a specific deal, they can make sure they don’t go through. i don’t think MLB persuading houston by bud saying “hey drayton i don’t think you should pay him that much.” if mlb doesn’t want a deal to get done, it won’t get done.

  22. azruavatar July 20, 2007 at 3:24 pm #

    They let Miller go through last year for way over slot and Max Scherzer a few months ago. I don’t think they have complete control over the process but something damn near to it. I imagine Porcello will go way over slot — it’s a decision that each team has to make and I’m sure it has repercussions.

  23. Silent George July 20, 2007 at 3:39 pm #

    I am sure there are things that the commsioner could use to persuade some teams to fall in line, such as hosting all-star games, but if the office does have actual power to block the deals, wouldn’t the Yankees and Red Sox be reigned in a little?

  24. Liam July 20, 2007 at 3:58 pm #

    Samardzija’s signing contract springs to mind. I remember Selig was pissed about that deal, but he didn’t block it or force them to re-negotiate.

  25. cariocacardinal July 21, 2007 at 10:42 am #

    “Players drafted after the fifth round aren’t supposed to exceed the final slot in that round, which this year was $123,300. Both Cruz and Fisher signed for $125,000—a whopping $1,700 over slot.”

    Supposedly our 23rd round pick Hage got $150K so I have to question the accuracy of this statement.

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